I came across this end section of an article, and thought it spoke further with to the email I posted the other day about Mormons and Christians. I thought I would post it since it makes use of the Mormon texts of authority (and of their 'prophets').
QUESTION: [From an interview of Joel Osteen by Chris Wallace on Fox News, 12/23/07]:
C.W.: And what about Mitt Romney..? Is a Mormon a true Christian?
J.O.: Well, in my mind they are. Mitt Romney has said he believes in Christ as his savior, and that's what I believe..I am not the one to judge the little details of it. So I believe they are..Romney seems like a man of character and integrity to me. I don't think anything would stop me from voting for him.
RESPONSE: Osteen is either astonishingly ignorant about Mormonism or about biblical Christianity, or both. Here are just a few of the facts about Mormonism that he apparently considers to be "little details" of no importance--raising the solemn question whether he is a true Christian himself.
The "god" Romney believes in is only one of an infinite number of such "gods" whom, in distinction to the others, Mormons identify as "the god of this world," one of Satan's titles (2 Cor 4:4). He is a glorified once-sinful man who was "redeemed" by another "Jesus" who died on another cross on another planet (one of an infinite number of each in Mormon theology). Over eons of time, this Mormon man, having gone through the temple ceremonies on that "earth," died. His spirit ascended through further temple-like initiations and finally became the "god" who created this earth on which we live.
Mormonism teaches, "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become." Joseph Smith holds each Mormon's destiny in his hands. His successor, Brigham Young, warned, "No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter the Celestial Kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith..He holds the keys.." (Journal of Discourses, 7:289). Another Mormon President, Joseph Fielding Smith, declared, "[There is] no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith.." (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol 1, pp. 189-90).
Romney is going through the essential secret temple ceremonies. As a "temple Mormon," he wears the magic "temple garment underwear" day and night for protection from evil. He has the ambition to become another god who will create its own earth with another Adam and Eve and fall. Sex with his many wives will produce a multitude of spirit children (including another spirit "Jesus" and "Lucifer"), another "Mary" for him to have sex with to provide a body for the "spirit Jesus" to inhabit in order to become a god after dying on another "cross," etc. Mormons such as Romney must believe this fiction in order to get to Mormon heaven.
The "Christ" Romney believes in, (making him the "Christian" Osteen says all Mormons are), was the half-brother of Lucifer in the pre-existent state. They were each born to the same polygamous "father god" but probably to a different one of his many, many wives.
Brigham Young said, "The devil told the truth [about becoming gods]. I do not blame Mother Eve..for..eating the forbidden fruit." Like Joseph Smith, he taught that only polygamists can become gods (Doctrine and Covenants, Sec. 132).
The salvation and "eternal life" Romney looks forward to is exaltation to polygamous godhood, which could take eons of time after death. Woodruff, fourth LDS president, declared, "If we were to do away with polygamy..then we must..give up our religion altogether.." (Journal of Discourses, Vol 13, p. 166).
Among the many bizarre Mormon beliefs: when the gods with their physical bodies have sex with their many "goddess" wives who also have physical bodies, the babies they produce to populate the earth (that this "heavenly father god" created) do not have physical bodies but are spirits. Yet, oddly enough, babies born to people on earth have physical bodies.
Thus, each spirit baby produced by the gods in heaven must come to earth to inhabit a newborn baby in order to get a physical body--as did "Jesus." Mormons have large families because so many spirit children, youth, or grown-ups wait anxiously in heaven for bodies to live in on earth.
Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt explained why we don't remember our pre-existent spirit state in heaven: our spirit bodies had grown so large that when they were squeezed into a baby's body on earth it caused a loss of memory.
Romney's Jesus Christ was not born of a virgin but to the "Mormon Mary" after the "god of this world," in his man's body of flesh and blood, had sex with her. For documentation of the above (and much more), see The God Makers book and or DVD.
I don't think that a man who bases his hope for eternity upon such delusion could possibly be fit for the White House.
http://www.thebereancall.org/node/6535
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6 comments:
Wow. You've got quite a few of your "facts" wrong about the LDS Church. You might want to do some reading at LDS.org.
I don't know what the website says, but I've studied Mormonism, reading several books on it. I've read some of their texts, held conversations with my brother-in-law who is director of missions in his ward.
Mormonism is deceptive, appealing to the 'traditional KJV' bible, and most mormons don't know it beyond what they use to disprove it to Christians. Once they do that, they introduce their other books from which they get their true teachings, the Doctrine & Covenants, the Pearl of Great Price and the Book of Mormon.
Mormons claim Christianity on the surface, but once you fall for it, they introduce new doctrines that nullify Biblical teachings in Christian terminology.
The Bible teaches taht we are not saved by works (Gal 2:16). Ephesisans 2:8,9 says that "you are saved by grace through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast."
Mormonism tries to play on this, adding just the samllest part. "You are saved by grace, after you've done all you can." "All you can"? I don't know anyone who does all they can! So much for salvation in Mormonism. besides, if you didn't read the posted article, it quotes former Mormon presidents and founders, ascribing salavtion being based on the decision of Joseph Smith, or confessing Jo Smith! The Bible says that is anathema (eternal accursedness)!
Do you think we're applying WAY too much attention to the religion of a presidential candidate when his record and past SCREAM out that he's not qualified or experienced enough even for a governor?? Yeah, reasonable citizens certainly do;
Willard Mitt Romney
http://willardromney.blogspot.com/
Thanks for finally doing your research and then catching on LONG after the fact.
I'm sure you believe what you've written, but practically everything you've written is based on twists on the beliefs of the LDS people crafted specifically to make them seem as scandalous as possible. Heck, why not throw more sex in your narrative? Apparently you think that's the major focus of the Mormons.
Click here for a quick and easy response for your allegation of what is believed regarding the conception of Jesus. The fairlds webpage is a good place to look for the other side of all of these other issues you raise, as well.
BTW, you might want to stop using the God Makers as your primary source, since they teach the same twisted narrative. Expand your knowledge by studying more primary sources. Then, you can get the context that the comments you've quoted were actually meant for.
Thanks for the critique Winghunter. This blog wasn't posted in order to deter people from voting for Romney. If you'd research my blogs, I did that at the beginning of his candidacy. This post was really to emphasize Osteen's spiritual ineptitude and further promote the truth about what Mormons believe.
Iguacu, Thanks for the LDS link. Of course the LDS will try to cover themselves publicly. You and I both know they believe in progressive revelation through the "prophet" and the get the major source of their teaching not from the Bible. When interviewing with them, they will point out errors in the Bible, and then they will show teachings later on from their other books, Doctrine & Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. The Bible says not to add to God's word (Deu 4:2; Prov. 30:6; Rev 22:18)
The president quoted in the link you gave me quotes the Bible in saying the Holy Spirit would come upon Mary and create the child within her. But true Mormon teaching differs from this. Let me show you:
"Thus, God the Father became the literal father of Jesus Christ. Jesus is the only person on eath to be born of a mortal mother and an immortal father." [Gospel Principles; Salt Lake City: The Church of Jesus Christ of LDS, 1992. 64]
"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were born of our fathers." [Brigham Young in Watt, ed. Journal of Discourses, 8:115]
"I will say that I was natually begotten; so was my father, and also my Saviour Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it." [Hebert C. Kimball in Watt, ed., Journal of Discourses, 8:211]
"Christ was Begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers... And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is bor to a mortal afther. There is nothing figurative and his paternity; he was begotten, conceived adn born in the normal and natural course f events, for he is the Son of God and that designation means what it says." [Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 547, 742]
"That Child to be born of Mary was begotten of Elohim, the Eteranl Father, not in violation of natural law but in accordance with a higher manifestation thereof; and the offspring from that association of supreme sanctity, celestial Sireship, and pure through mortal maternity, was of right to be called the "Son of the Highest." [James Talmage, Jesus the Christ (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co. 1981. 81]
"The official doctrine of the church is that Jesus is the liteal offspring of God. He's got 46 chromosomes; 23 came from Mary, 23 came from God the eternal Father." [BYU Proffesor Stephen E. Robinson in The Mormon Puzzle video produced in 1997 by the Southern Baptist Convention.]
I hope that's sufficient to see the believe something different from what you think. By the way, I've never seen Godchasers, though I hear it is good. I actually just quoted my sources out of Mormonism 101: Examining the Religion of the Latter-day Saints; Bill McKeever & Eric Johnson. Baker Books. 2000.
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