What LDS teaches concernning the Son.

I recently posted a blog that cited from an article that pointed out some distinctive of Mormon belief. I was challenged about this and given a site to go to, www.fairlds.org, and I submitted a response to this man, because I believe that the Mormon religion is not Christian. I was able to cite some LDS sources that state plainly what they believe abou the Son, Jesus, and I thought I would repost the citations of this LDS literature.

-----, Thanks for the LDS link. Of course the LDS will try to cover themselves publicly. You and I both know they believe in progressive revelation through the "prophet" and the get the major source of their teaching not from the Bible. When interviewing with them, they will point out supposed "errors" in the Bible, and then they will show teachings later on from their other books, Doctrine & Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. The Bible says not to add to God's word (Deu 4:2; Prov. 30:6; Rev 22:18)

The president quoted in the link you gave me quotes the Bible in saying the Holy Spirit would come upon Mary and create the child within her. But true Mormon teaching differs from this. Let me show you:

"Thus, God the Father became the literal father of Jesus Christ. Jesus is the only person on eath to be born of a mortal mother and an immortal father." [Gospel Principles; Salt Lake City: The Church of Jesus Christ of LDS, 1992. 64]

"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were born of our fathers." [Brigham Young in Watt, ed. Journal of Discourses, 8:115]

"I will say that I was natually begotten; so was my father, and also my Saviour Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it." [Hebert C. Kimball in Watt, ed., Journal of Discourses, 8:211]

"Christ was Begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers... And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is bor to a mortal afther. There is nothing figurative and his paternity; he was begotten, conceived adn born in the normal and natural course f events, for he is the Son of God and that designation means what it says." [Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 547, 742]

"That Child to be born of Mary was begotten of Elohim, the Eteranl Father, not in violation of natural law but in accordance with a higher manifestation thereof; and the offspring from that association of supreme sanctity, celestial Sireship, and pure through mortal maternity, was of right to be called the "Son of the Highest." [James Talmage, Jesus the Christ (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co. 1981. 81]

"The official doctrine of the church is that Jesus is the liteal offspring of God. He's got 46 chromosomes; 23 came from Mary, 23 came from God the eternal Father." [BYU Proffesor Stephen E. Robinson in The Mormon Puzzle video produced in 1997 by the Southern Baptist Convention.]

I hope that's sufficient to see they believe something different from what you think (or were taught). By the way, I've never seen Godchasers, though I hear it is good. I actually just quoted my sources out of Mormonism 101: Examining the Religion of the Latter-day Saints; Bill McKeever & Eric Johnson. Baker Books. 2000.

Joel Osteen and Mitt Romney - Further Distinctives on Mormons

I came across this end section of an article, and thought it spoke further with to the email I posted the other day about Mormons and Christians. I thought I would post it since it makes use of the Mormon texts of authority (and of their 'prophets').


QUESTION: [From an interview of Joel Osteen by Chris Wallace on Fox News, 12/23/07]:

C.W.: And what about Mitt Romney..? Is a Mormon a true Christian?

J.O.: Well, in my mind they are. Mitt Romney has said he believes in Christ as his savior, and that's what I believe..I am not the one to judge the little details of it. So I believe they are..Romney seems like a man of character and integrity to me. I don't think anything would stop me from voting for him.

RESPONSE: Osteen is either astonishingly ignorant about Mormonism or about biblical Christianity, or both. Here are just a few of the facts about Mormonism that he apparently considers to be "little details" of no importance--raising the solemn question whether he is a true Christian himself.

The "god" Romney believes in is only one of an infinite number of such "gods" whom, in distinction to the others, Mormons identify as "the god of this world," one of Satan's titles (2 Cor 4:4). He is a glorified once-sinful man who was "redeemed" by another "Jesus" who died on another cross on another planet (one of an infinite number of each in Mormon theology). Over eons of time, this Mormon man, having gone through the temple ceremonies on that "earth," died. His spirit ascended through further temple-like initiations and finally became the "god" who created this earth on which we live.

Mormonism teaches, "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become." Joseph Smith holds each Mormon's destiny in his hands. His successor, Brigham Young, warned, "No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter the Celestial Kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith..He holds the keys.." (Journal of Discourses, 7:289). Another Mormon President, Joseph Fielding Smith, declared, "[There is] no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith.." (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol 1, pp. 189-90).

Romney is going through the essential secret temple ceremonies. As a "temple Mormon," he wears the magic "temple garment underwear" day and night for protection from evil. He has the ambition to become another god who will create its own earth with another Adam and Eve and fall. Sex with his many wives will produce a multitude of spirit children (including another spirit "Jesus" and "Lucifer"), another "Mary" for him to have sex with to provide a body for the "spirit Jesus" to inhabit in order to become a god after dying on another "cross," etc. Mormons such as Romney must believe this fiction in order to get to Mormon heaven.

The "Christ" Romney believes in, (making him the "Christian" Osteen says all Mormons are), was the half-brother of Lucifer in the pre-existent state. They were each born to the same polygamous "father god" but probably to a different one of his many, many wives.

Brigham Young said, "The devil told the truth [about becoming gods]. I do not blame Mother Eve..for..eating the forbidden fruit." Like Joseph Smith, he taught that only polygamists can become gods (Doctrine and Covenants, Sec. 132).

The salvation and "eternal life" Romney looks forward to is exaltation to polygamous godhood, which could take eons of time after death. Woodruff, fourth LDS president, declared, "If we were to do away with polygamy..then we must..give up our religion altogether.." (Journal of Discourses, Vol 13, p. 166).

Among the many bizarre Mormon beliefs: when the gods with their physical bodies have sex with their many "goddess" wives who also have physical bodies, the babies they produce to populate the earth (that this "heavenly father god" created) do not have physical bodies but are spirits. Yet, oddly enough, babies born to people on earth have physical bodies.

Thus, each spirit baby produced by the gods in heaven must come to earth to inhabit a newborn baby in order to get a physical body--as did "Jesus." Mormons have large families because so many spirit children, youth, or grown-ups wait anxiously in heaven for bodies to live in on earth.

Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt explained why we don't remember our pre-existent spirit state in heaven: our spirit bodies had grown so large that when they were squeezed into a baby's body on earth it caused a loss of memory.

Romney's Jesus Christ was not born of a virgin but to the "Mormon Mary" after the "god of this world," in his man's body of flesh and blood, had sex with her. For documentation of the above (and much more), see The God Makers book and or DVD.

I don't think that a man who bases his hope for eternity upon such delusion could possibly be fit for the White House.

http://www.thebereancall.org/node/6535

Incentive for political bias

Happy New Year to everyone! I hope you had a great Christmas holiday. I've been out and away for a bit, so that's part of the reason I was gone so long. Have any of you watched the Iowa caucus last night. I love how when Huckabee did well in the voting, it was attributed to the "rural evangelicals," but supposedly Huckabee won't have that going for him in the other states! They ought to come out and call the Christians hillbillys, for that's what they mean. Hey, I'm from the hills of NC, I'm a hillbilly! Nevermind the fact that I've got a 97 hr. Masters of Theology!

I don't mean to be saying the same thing over and over, but I guess I've had my eyes opened with Huckabee running for office and all the conservative broadcasters him. And they just don't stop. They keep harping about how he made all these pardons, when all you have to do is go to Huck's site, and see that every criminal in Arkansas is entitled to apply for a pardon, and Huckabee turned DOWN over 80% of them. Does Romney even carry out that part of his government role, or does he deal with that?

So back to the conservative broadcasters, you know, Rush, Hannity, Ingram, Coulter. I think it's interesting that they all work for Clear Channel. Guess who Clear Channel is owned by. It's owned by Bain Capital, and guess who owns Bain Capital. Who else but Mitt Romney! Hmmm... let's put two and two together. The reason all these talk-show hosts is because he pays their checks.

Mormons fit to be in Office?

Hmmm... wow, that sets off the blog, doesn't it? No, I'm not personally against Mormons. I think they can be very nice people. I had to comment on Romney's behavior. It's been eating at me the past couple of days. Don't ya like how he defined the word 'saw'? Does that bring anyone back to the days of Clinton's redefinition of the word 'is'?

See, Romney had no problem twisting the definition of the word 'saw,' because Mormons in general twist definitions to fit their metaphysical program. They claim to be Christian, and sound very Christian, at the outset. They confess that Jesus is the Son of God (by physical procreation with Mary), and then twist the meaning of 'virgin birth.' Mormons don't tell you that God the Father is one in a long line of exalted humans who earned their way to "achieving god-hood" through perfectly observing the celestial law. Really, Mormons are polytheists.

Mormons use terms familiar to Christians like 'salvation,' but mean by it a 'general salvation' to the lowest form of heaven. Oh, and Mormons believe the only ones who go to hell are the apostate Mormons, so you have a better chance in the afterlife if you never become a Mormon. If you are a devoted Mormon, but still can't completely keep the Celestial law, you'll go to the second heaven. But if you're perfect, like Jesus, you will be exalted (exaltation) to god-hood and get your own planet and spirit children with your wife, who will remain pregnant for eternity, until the two of you are promoted to a higher level of god-hood.

I also like how when confronted with the question about Lucifer and Jesus being brothers, Romney denied it, though a simple websearch shows the LDS apostles have taught it, and by logical implication of the Mormon worldview, they are necessarily brothers of Father and Mother God, as in Mormon theology, we are all literal spirit children of the heavenly couple. And the spokesperson for the LDS church came out and flatly denied that this is a Mormon doctrine (teaching).

So if Romney can openly lie to the American public about his religion, and he can redefine words to fit his agenda (trying to run the country?), does he have the integrity to be in office? I don't think so. Maybe I should have called the blog, "Do Mormons have integrity?"